Hi List Members,
Just a little reminder about our guest expert, Kathi Kearney's conference
titled Homeschooling the Gifted which begins this Thursday, September 18th -
US time. Also here is a list of pre-conference links:
BASIC INFO ON HOMESCHOOLING & HOMESCHOOLING THE GIFTED:
"Staying Home From School" by Lynn Schnaiburg (Education Week):
http://www.edweek.org/ew/vol-15/38home.h15
"Homeroom: Debunking the Myths of Homeschooling" by Lisa Rivero:
http://www.giftedbooks.com/aart_rivero.html
"Homeschooling Gifted Students" An Introductory Guide for Parents" by
Jacque Ensign (ERIC Digest):
http://ericec.org/digests/e543.html
>>
"Homeschooling Highly Gifted Children": by Kathi Kearney:
http://www.hollingworth.org/HomSchHG.html
"When Schools Fail: Is Homeschooling Right for You and Your Highly
Gifted Child?" by Karen Morse: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/schools_fail.htm
PARENT STORIES:
"Radical Possibilities for the Profoundly Gifted" by Gay:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/radical_possibility.htm
"Asynchrony: Homeschooling an Exceptionally Gifted Child" by Hilary Cohen:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/asynchrony.htm
"Highly Gifted Children at Home" by Karen Morse:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/hg_at_home.htm
"Homeschooling: A Family Affair" by Suzy:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/home_schooling.htm
This information is also posted on the website
http://www.neiu.edu/~ourgift
Please invite others who may have an interest in this topic:)
Kind regards,
Sally_L
Conference Coordinator
Hi List Members,
I am opening the conference - with my welcome to our guest expert Kathi
Kearney. Yes, I know this is earlier than what I planned. I hope you are all
flexible and understand that I will not have access to the internet at the
previously planned time for my opening welcome to all of you the list members
and our guest. Therefore, I will open this conference early - for my part.
Kathi - we are so excited as a list that you are volunteering your time and
expertise on the topic Homeschooling The Gifted. The links you have provided
are wonderful. Please list members, take the time read, so you can be prepared
to participate.
Even though the conference is officially open, PLEASE DO NOT Post until our
guest expert, Kathi Kearney, posts her opening statement scheduled for
Thursday, September 18th.
I apologize that I will be away from an internet connection. Life has many
surprises and I hope you all understand my need for flexibility.
AGain, wait until Kathi Kearney posts first:)
Kind regards,
Sally L
Welcome to the e-conference on Homeschooling Gifted Children, and thank you
to everyone for inviting me to be the guest speaker! (or is that "guest
wordprocessor" LOL!)
I have divided up this three-day conference into three separate topics:
DAY 1: THE "NUTS AND BOLTS" OF HOMESCHOOLING GIFTED CHILDREN: A brief
introduction to the history of homeschooling gifted children, followed by an
exploration of the following questions: How do I know if homeschooling is
right for our family? When should I take a gifted child out of school? What
about curriculum? Which homeschooling approaches or methods are right for my
child (and our family)? What about enrichment in a homeschooling setting?
What about acceleration? What unusual legal issues might arise when
homeschooling a gifted child?
DAY 2: HOMESCHOOLING GIFTED CHILDREN AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL: Many gifted
children who homeschool and are allowed to progress at their own rate end up
beginning high school level work in some subjects before they are of typical
high school age (sometimes many years before!) Thus, the second day of the
conference will focus specifically on issues surrounding homeschooling
gifted children who are ready for high school level curriculum in at least
one area. We will focus on such questions as how to know when a gifted child
is ready for high school level work, how to create transcripts, preparing
for college, and managing courses at dual (or triple, or quadruple. . .)
grade levels all at the same time in the same child.
DAY 3: POTPOURRI: QUESTIONS, RESOURCES, AND HOW HOMESCHOOLING IS CHANGING
THE FACE OF GIFTED EDUCATION. The third day is "anything goes!" Feel free to
ask any questions, from those about curriculum to policy issues to the
future of homeschooling.
This conference will work best if everyone participates with questions,
comments, and lively discussion! I look forward to meeting you all!
Hi Kathi!
First let me say
thank you so much for extending your help and expertise to this group.
I am sure it will mean so much to so many. Also, I have never done
one of these conferences before, so if I'm jumping the gun or doing something
wrong, please feel free to let me know! :oP
Homeschooling
has always been right for our family. I don't think I ever wanted to send
my daughter to school. However, those were for my own reasons, not
because I thought my daughter was gifted. I thought any child could learn
like her if their parents spent more time with them.
I
"officially" started homeschooling when my daughter was 4, 2nd term
in January. She finished the whole year by May. It was as if I
could not stop her. So, in September, I let her go into 1st grade.
I was quite suprised when she was no longer willing! I was using
Abeka. 2 months into it I decided this was too much and switched to Alpha
Omega. She was ok with this, but then, 2 months later, she seen the Abeka
books and said, Can I do the fun stuff again Mama? :o)
Well, she did
not really like it in 1st or 2nd grade, but I did not know what to do. So
this year I have tried to make a change by doing a lot of writing for her, (her
handwriting is terrible and she hates to write, I always made her do it anyway,
but I'm tired of fighting about it), trying to skip over repetitive things, the
Abeka math is very repetitive so I just heard of ALEKS, we started that
yesterday. Added French and some unit study for Science, Edventures for
science and art.
Here's the
kicker...... The first 4 days of school, she says, she LOVES 3rd
grade! I am so happy.....2nd week, I'm bored. What can I do?
She asked us for so long to teach her to play chess, (we did not think she
could before we found out about giftedness) so we taught her last year, now
she's bored....it's too slow.
So I guess my
question comes into the "What curriculum to use and which homeschooling
method is right for me?" category. I'm pretty sure
regular stuff doesn't work! LOL Your help is appreciated!
Thanks,
Stephanie
Kathi
Kearney <kkearney@midcoast.com> wrote:
Welcome to the e-conference on Homeschooling Gifted Children, and
thank you
to everyone for inviting me to be the guest speaker! (or is that "guest
wordprocessor" LOL!)
I have divided up this three-day conference into three separate topics:
DAY 1: THE "NUTS AND BOLTS" OF HOMESCHOOLING GIFTED CHILDREN: A brief
introduction to the history of homeschooling gifted children, followed by an
exploration of the following questions: How do I know if homeschooling is
right for our family? When should I take a gifted child out of school? What
about curriculum? Which homeschooling approaches or methods are right for my
child (and our family)? What about enrichment in a homeschooling setting?
What about acceleration? What unusual legal issues might arise when
homeschooling a gifted child?
Stephanie wrote:
<<<<<Here's the kicker...... The first 4 days of school,
she says, she LOVES 3rd grade! I am so happy.....2nd week, I'm bored.
What can I do? She asked us for so long to teach her to play chess,
(we did not think she could before we found out about giftedness) so we taught
her last year, now she's bored....it's too slow.
So I guess my question comes into the "What curriculum to use and which
homeschooling method is right for me?" category.
I'm pretty sure regular stuff doesn't work! LOL
Your help is appreciated! >>>>>
A parent homeschooling a gifted child has the same problem a regular classroom
teacher of a gifted child has (and even the same problem the gifted ed. teacher
has!) and that is that these children practically eat the curriculum up for
breakfast and then have nothing left for lunch and dinner!!
One key is getting them into the right instructional level of curriculum to
begin with. Textbook series and programs like Calvert, if you choose a more
traditional approach, have placement tests.
But gifted children also, as Leta Hollingworth put it, often "excel in
'thinking things together'" and making interdisciplinary connections. If
you have a child like this, a more unschooling/relaxed homschooling approach,
driven in part by the child's intense interests, may work.
But if you are using a "regular" curriculum, no matter what it is --
a textbook series, Calvert, A Beka, etc. -- then it's *very* important to pick
the right instructional level to begin with and not work that's too easy for
the child.
I'd also remind everyone that gifted children often seem to have
"cognitive leaps" in their development, so a program and curriculum
that was just fine a semester ago or a month ago, can need to be changed today
(this is just as true in regular school placements as in homeschooling by the
way).
But I do find that people homeschooling gifted children who use traditional
curriculum have to budget much more money for curriculum materials, because
they either select materials that are too easy to begin with and have to buy a
higher level; or the material itself is broken into bite-size pieces and moves
too slowly and doesn't give a gifted child the "big picture" that
they often crave; or the curriculum material focuses on lower-level cognitive
skills, rather than higher-level thinking.
At least now you can immediately sell unwanted used (or new!) curriculum on
eBay or Vegsource, rather than having to wait for the annual state "used
curriculum sale" like you had to do 10 years ago!
Kathi,
Thanks
so much for being the conference speaker. I wonder if you could address
choosing curriculum and making adaptations for a student with poor visual
spatial skills? I homeschool our 16 year old son who is both gifted and
has learning differences. I'd love some suggestions for teaching more
creatively to address this challenge. He prefers to do his work orally
whenever possible, but with college looming ahead in two years I want
to be open to using other techniques. For example he opened his history
book for this year and the confusing format of the text drove him absolutely
crazy! How to cope?
Hi everyone!! It's great to see the conference has started. . . .
>DAY 1: THE "NUTS AND BOLTS" OF HOMESCHOOLING GIFTED CHILDREN:
>
Perhaps we can add a question or two? What about preparing for
deschooling and hyperschooling?! When we started homeschooling I was
prepared for C to deschool but NO one warned me about the intense, long
number of hours a content-starved child may want to spend learning.
Thus the term hyperschooling!
For those considering homeschooling or those who have just pulled a
child from school, it may be helpful. . .
Lucy asked:
<<<<<
I wonder if you could address choosing curriculum and making adaptations for a
student with poor visual spatial skills? I homeschool our 16 year old son
who is both gifted and has learning differences. I'd love some suggestions for
teaching more creatively to address this challenge. He prefers to do his work
orally whenever possible, but with college looming ahead in two years I want to
be open to using other techniques. For example he opened his history book
for this year and the confusing format of the text drove him absolutely crazy!
How to cope?>>>>>
First of all, has he had a vision evaluation by a developmental optometrist?
This sounds like a vision problem! (and one that a regular optometrist or
ophthalmologist may not catch).
Secondly, what do you mean by "learning differences"? A diagnosed
learning disability? If so, he may qualify for talking books for the blind or
dyslexic -- and accommodations such as oral tests in college. But you need the
full documentation from testing to get this.
I know what you mean about modern textbooks -- they are so visually
"busy" in their formats (I guess, to try to compete with the
internet!) that they can be distracting for ADHD kids, too visual for kids with
poor visual-spatial skills, not to mention the stultifying language in some of
them. Yesterday I was reviewing the new social studies textbook our school has
adopted. Yes, I was distracted by the visuals. Yes, I was distracted by the
politically correct language the book chose to use.
When you get a textbook like that, sometimes purchasing the study guide helps
Tonya wrote:
> Perhaps we can add a question or two? What about preparing for
> deschooling and hyperschooling?! When we started homeschooling I was
> prepared for C to deschool but NO one warned me about the intense, long
> number of hours a content-starved child may want to spend learning.
> Thus the term hyperschooling!
>
> For those considering homeschooling or those who have just pulled a
> child from school, it may be helpful. . .>>>>>
"Deschooling" -- a period of time after removing a child from a less than
satisfactory school situation in order to homeschool -- is well-documented
in the homeschooling literature, especially amongst those who write about a
more "unschooling" approach. "Deschooling" refers to allowing the child a
period of time to decompress from a bad school situation, and not doing a
lot of formal academics during that time. I have heard various homeschooling
authors say that a general expectation is one month of "deschooling" for
every year of a bad school situation.
"Hyperschooling" is Tonya's own word-invention, but it describes very well
what happens to some gifted children who have been denied an opportunity to
learn at their own appropriate pace in a regular school situation, and
decide to remedy that themselves, as soon as they begin homeschooling.
And I'm going to let Tonya tell her daughter's story about "hyperschooling"
as an example!!! (Plus Tonya's reaction to this "event"!)
Tonya wrote:
>
> Perhaps we can add a question or two? What about preparing for
> deschooling and hyperschooling?! When we started homeschooling I was
> prepared for C to deschool but NO one warned me about the intense, long
> number of hours a content-starved child may want to spend learning.
> Thus the term hyperschooling!
Good point, Tonya!
My daughter had a long list of things she wanted to learn about when we
started homeschooling, 3/4 way through 4th grade. Besides finding
regular school slow and boring, it took up so much of her day that she
didn't have time for the subjects she was really interested in learning.
She was "chomping at the bit" to learn! I remember her coming into my
bedroom when I was trying to go to sleep at night asking me more
questions about what she had been learning about during the day. Boy,
was I tired those first few months. ;^)
I had expected to deschool, too, but we didn't deschool at all. Perhaps
that's because we were lucky enough to get her out of school before too
much damage was done to her love of learning.
Mary
>
> "Deschooling" -- a period of time after removing a child from a less than
> satisfactory school situation in order to homeschool
Okay,
I want to give a very brief history of my middle son's
school/deschool/homeschool situation in order to ask advice. I will TRY to
make this short:
DS entered kindergarten with more than enough knowledge, excelled at
everything, but teacher thought "there was 'something' wrong with him"
because he would wander off daydreaming, etc. Went to see psychologists
for counseling at her recommendation. First grade -- had a WONDERFUL
teacher (who is still DS's hero) that understood how extremely bright DS
was and allowed him total freedom in the classroom to pursue his unique
interests. THis was the best year DS ever had in public school. He
really showed his giftedness in this setting.
Second through third grades -- rigid teachers that called me in like
every day to express concern over DS (I worked at the school at the time
as an aide). I believed them, took him to yet more doctors, who put him
on meds for ADD inattentive. No difference in behavior or daydreaming
because of the meds. Their punishment was to take away the things he
LIKED in order to make him do the subjects he didn't like.
I got frustrated by his fourth grade year and pulled him out to
homeschool. We had a wonderful time together. I made few demands on him
in the area of handwriting (his most difficult area) but we did many
hands-on projects.
Due to me becoming a single parent this year ( having to support the
whole family) I had to take a different job his fifth grade year, and
didn't think I could homeschool any longer. Put him back into a regular
public school classroom (different school - didn't tell them of the
problems in previous school, because I wanted no bias going in.) First
few weeks were great, then he just stopped working and got almost ALL
F's (except he was the school champion in accelerated reader -- all he
did was read and get points, until they finally took all books away from
him in an effort to get him to do work). They put him on an IEP as BD
because he was refusing to work.
We went through two more years of public school that way -- with an IEP
allowing him an aide to help him stay motivated, but much of the time
he spent in detention anyway -- just sitting there and singing. He
wasn't doing anything "bad" -- he just wasn't doing anything at all! I
took him for intensive independent testing (my expense) to see if there
was a learning disability. It showed him a higher IQ than even the
school thought, but with dyslexia/dysgraphia. They didn't really seem
to want to change his IEP from BD to GT/LD or GT/LD/BD.
So back to homeschool for 8th grade. I didn't get much work out of him.
Most people said he just needed to de-school. Okay fine.
The next year they opened a new alternative, charter school 30 miles
away and we tried it. Work at your own pace. DS still took a lot of
one-on-one time with teachers to keep him on-task. But it was working.
The following fall, their school's popularity boomed, the enrollment
tripled, and I got a nice note saying "this isn't working out" for DS
and he was not invited to come back (there was no IEP there because of
the type of school it was). I think he was too time-intensive for
them. So at this point, DS feels like he has had at least three
"failures" -- public school the first time, the second time, and this
charter school. After another semester homeschooling, he decides he
would like to TRY regular public high school (which I don't think will
work because he is not used to the structure of that) and since the
principal is a friend of mine, he agrees to give DS a two-week trial
period. Week one went pretty good except he was too shy to dress out
for PE. Week two went a little better, so we extended the trial. Then
the bottom fell out and DS went back to doing nothing, shutting down,
and was shown the door. Failure again (although I see it as something
he could overcome, he does not see it that way).
So we are now back at homeschool at age 16, and he is totally shut down
from learning. Doesn't want to even pick up a book. I'm just trying to
pull him along to get him as far as his GED. He doesn't even want that
anymore, much less the original plans he had for higher education. He
now absolutely hates learning and believes he is a failure at
everything. He is extremely bright and could work through the
curriculum in half the time as most if he would just sit down and do it.
It is so frustrating for me as a parent to see a very bright child just
give up and quit.
Do I have any hope of him regaining his desire for learning at this age?
Tracy
thought
I'd kick in my 2 cents, even though I am not a homeschooler. However,
many gifted schoolschoolers need homeschool-style supplementation, so I have
some experience with this.
I
have found that it is very difficult to know what level of material is
appropriate and that sometimes I have had to start low and allow my daughter to
progress rapidly through something in order to find the right level of
material. In addition, even though it seemed very counter-intuitive to a
regular learner like me, I had to become very sensitive to J's ability and
desire to skip over material. It is only after the fact that I am able to
realize that she has already learned what she decided to skip over, even though
it was not learned in a formal way.
Leslie
______________________
Kathi
wrote:
I know what you mean about modern textbooks -- they are so visually
"busy" in their formats (I guess, to try to compete with the
internet!) that they can be distracting for ADHD kids, too visual for kids with
poor visual-spatial skills, not to mention the stultifying language in some of
them. Yesterday I was reviewing the new social studies textbook our school has
adopted. Yes, I was distracted by the visuals. Yes, I was distracted by the
politically correct language the book chose to use.
When you get a textbook like that, sometimes purchasing the study guide helps.
Kathi:
May
I pop in here with an add-on to wonderful rec. by you.
V/S
or Associative learners may also find that too much visual input is distracting . They prefer their own movies playing in their
head created by the words they are reading! This is especially true when the
graphics do not jive with the word "picture" creating a disconnect.
Also for the VS kid it has to be esthetically pleasing and some of these
graphics used in different texts are garish and serve no purpose but to
"spice up" the page.
When
we cover a new unit in history for example. I have found it effective with my
child to show a documentary from a great source such as national Geographic or
the History Channel as a visual anchor. Reading plain text, after that
point, comes alive with the images set in place from the era and geographical
location.
Thanks
for doing this conference Kathi!
Best,
Kristine
Welcome, Kathi, to this conference email list, and thank you for your many
contributions over the years to discussion of homeschooling among families
of gifted children.
You know me, of course, from a "Brand X" email list and from emails back and
forth between our Web sites. I've thought of a question for this discussion
I haven't seen discussed in quite these terms in the online places where I
hang out:
How do parents deal with the career tradeoffs involved in homeschooling
gifted children?
I get the impression that a large part of the GENERAL homeschooling
population consists of families that basically buy in to the idea of one
parent (nearly always the mother) being home with the children while they
are young, while the other parent (almost always the father) works outside
the home, possibly overtime, to pay the bills. Among the gifted population,
there seems to be a particularly large percentage of parents whose own level
of higher education is such that probably both parents expected to be in
full-time outside-the-home careers during much of their children's minority.
Moreover, those parents who financed their higher education with loans
probably have an urgent rationale for aiming for higher rather than lower
incomes during the first decade or so after completing higher education.
Just to get the discussion rolling, I'll describe my own situation. I grew
up in a home in which my mom was employed sporadically as a registered nurse
(usually doing surgical nursing at research hospital) when I was growing up,
but was mostly a stay-at-home mom when I and my three younger siblings were
younger than school age. My dad was an industrial engineer and certainly the
chief income-earner during all of my childhood. I can tell my dad always
desired to spend more time with us kids than his job made feasible, and can
also tell that my mom gained a lot of satisfaction from her role as a
mother, but also from her career, which she resumed full-time when my
youngest sister got into junior high. A few years before that, when I first
heard of the bra-burning demonstrations of the early "women's liberation"
movement, my first thought was, "Great, this would be a way that dads could
spend more time with their kids."
My wife grew up in Taiwan back when it was a third world country and at
times both her parents had to work full-time or even overtime just to have
enough to eat. Her mom did a lot of home piecework in my wife's early
childhood, after her dad's hitherto very successful business went bankrupt.
Taiwan had a very Wild West free-enterprise system in those days, and every
young person expected to work full-time outside the home after growing up,
as indeed most people in Taiwan do today. (Homeschooling, although legal, is
VERY rare in Taiwan.) My wife is the youngest of six siblings in her family,
and attended a boarding school for the six years of junior high and senior
high, a school with both boy and girl students but strict sex segregation in
senior-high classes.
So over the years my wife and I have mixed and matched parenting
responsibilities in a variety of ways. We each got our last higher education
degree after marrying, but before having children, and since having children
we have attempted always to have at least one parent home for
round-the-clock child care. Sometimes I have had work that involved
MONTH-LONG business trips out of state, and sometimes I have been in more
conventional commute-to-the-office kinds of jobs. Currently my wife is the
main "breadwinner" and I am the main stay-at-home parent. I like being
involved in my children's education A LOT, but I have noticed that it is
generally true that men form much of their social life with other men
through employment associations, which I don't have in the conventional form
at the moment. I would probably be happiest in outside-the-home employment
if we moved back to Taiwan (where we lived December 1998-July 2001), but
that has its own set of tradeoffs [grin]. For now, my wife likes her work as
a piano teacher, which pays the bills, and likes having the kids in an
environment like that of the United States. She tells me to feel that my
current occupation is "private school principal," and that makes me feel
better about what I'm doing at the moment.
I get the impression that some homeschooling moms feel varying kinds of
pressure, from inside or from outside, about choosing to devote substantial
time to their children's education rather than to earning cash income for
the family. I'd appreciate hearing from you, Kathi, or from any onlooker to
this discussion, about helpful ways for families to balance competing claims
on the parents' time while the kids are growing up.
Karl M. Bunday
Corin wrote, under the " visual spatial question" subject,
> Isn't that the truth! And I'm also seeing that vision therapy has helped
> tremendously with this issue for my dd.
Are you referring to optometric vision therapy, or to something else? My son
has had vision therapy, as it was labeled, from an optometrist here in
Minnesota after M.D.s in Taiwan and optometrists here both confirmed that he
has strabismus (eyes that don't point in the same direction naturally). The
vision therapy my son had consisted mostly of exercises in having each eye
independently, and both eyes together, track printed text on a page. It had
a very helpful effect on my son's reading ability. I'm curious about whether
you sought the same kind of treatment for a similar issue, or if the vision
therapy you sought was something different, for a different issue.
> She doesn't like 'busy' stuff --
> hates magazines, for example, even Kids Discover --
This is interesting to me, because my son has always liked busy pages. For
example, Dorling Kindersley illustrated books, which are almost an archetype
of the busy page, have long been favorites with my son. He also likes the
Lego catalog and other printed matter in picture-filled, three-ring-circus
formats.
> and she used to need
> a lot of white space on the page (which was annoying as it limited her
> to reading books that were usually below her ability & interest level).
A recent discovery in our home was that my son reads DRAMATICALLY faster in
large print books for baby boomer adults. I requested a copy of the first
volume of the Lord of the Rings trilogy from the local library for my son a
couple of months ago, and accidentally ended up with the large print
edition. My son blazed through that much faster than through the Oxford
World's Classics paperback edition of The Three Musketeers he had read just
before. So then I intentionally requested more large print books for him. I
discovered that there are now many interesting titles available in large
print editions, doubtless because Baby Boomers like me are getting to be of
the age that we have presbyopia. I like those large print editions myself!
This matter of requesting large print books might be something other
families would like to try, to see if it turns up interesting books with
better readability of each page.
> Since she began VT a few months ago, I have seen her make great strides
> in that respect, incluidng picking up books thatwere "too crowded" a
> while back, and having more tolerance for somewhat busier text.
My son's reading scores on achievement tests have jumped up substantially
since he finished his course of vision therapy, and his percentile rank on
reading tests is still on an upward trajectory. More to the point, he enjoys
reading and reads all the time, in books of all different formats.
The population incidence of strabismus is supposed to be about 5 percent,
and higher in close relatives of other people who have it. (My son has
cousins in Taiwan with strabismus. No one in my family has it, which is why
I didn't spot this issue quite as soon as I should have. My son was a
"spontaneous" early reader before his third birthday, but later plateaued in
reading ability for a while. Other parents in this discussion may want to
check about strabismus if their children seem slow in reading development.
Karl M. Bunday
I am a working single mom(50-60 hrs a week), even when I was married ,I was "in
charge" of education. I am now attempting to homeschool my 5 yr old son using
a bit of unschooling, tutoring and my attention after work. I was reviewing the
time I have spent in the last few months doing "prep" work and gathering
materials etc.There is more prep time than actual homeschooling time.I for one,
am feeling the pressure and second Karl's request.Any tips, comments etc.?
Barbara
Karl M. Bunday wrote:
>Corin wrote, under the " visual spatial question" subject,
>
>
>
>>Isn't that the truth! And I'm also seeing that vision therapy has helped
>>tremendously with this issue for my dd.
>>
>>
>
>Are you referring to optometric vision therapy, or to something else?
>
She does both vision efficiency therapy and vision perception therapy,
with Dr Lianne Rice. There's more information on her website, at
http://www.visiondiva.com Look under "services"
Corin.
I'll chime in on this subject.
I have never been a homeschooler and both me and my husband have careers
outside the home which neither of us would have given up for homeschooling
a child.
I was once told, on an e-mail list, that if I loved my daughter I would
homeschool her. My opinion on this is that it is because I love my daughter
that I do not homeschool her. I beleive that each of us has certain
temperaments and abilities and that we structure our lives to accomodate
those.
That being said, both my husband and I have been very involved in J's
schooling. This has required considerable time in advocacy and in providing
some degree of education at home, if not strictly homeschooling. We both
have ensured a certain degree of flexibility in our work schedules and have
been able to accomodate J when we had to be at home for any sort of
schooling. Of course, with J in school much of the day, the home part did
not usually occur during our working hours, anyway.
Karl M. Bunday wrote:
>I like those large print editions myself!
>This matter of requesting large print books might be something other
>families would like to try, to see if it turns up interesting books with
>better readability of each page.
>
You know, I could try that with my dd... Otoh, I accidentally got a
large print book from the library, and I just could not read it. I can't
tell you why, except that I think there was *too much* white space for me!
Corin
<snip>
> How do parents deal with the career tradeoffs
> involved in homeschooling
> gifted children?
>
For us, this is an on-going struggle. In the last
year, we moved -- for many reasons, but the fact that
dh's previous job was nearly 50% international travel
certainly was a big factor. Right now, we are
benefiting from a few quarters of slow sales -- travel
budgets were slashed, and dh is home for the rest of
the year!
I put myself through Harvard, and believe me, it does
eat away at me -- especially when the alumni magazine
arrives in my mailbox -- to hear about the exciting
careers and comfortable lifestyles, etc., enjoyed by
classmates. I know that the stress that would come
with putting Origami back in school would be horrible
for him as well as for the rest of the family, so I
keep doing what I am doing.
More than the opportunity costs of not working
full-time, though, I find the mental/intellectual
restlessness that follows me everywhere to be quite
maddening.
> I get the impression that some homeschooling moms
> feel varying kinds of
> pressure, from inside or from outside, about
> choosing to devote substantial
> time to their children's education rather than to
> earning cash income for
> the family.
<snip>
I faced a lot of pressure from my parents to
home-school. They do not even approve of my efforts
to work part-time -- or, as far as I can tell, of my
desire to at least have a hobby. My husband, bless
him, is very supportive -- both of the decision to
homeschool and of my strong desire to rebuild some
sort of career.
Of course, there also is all kinds of internal
pressure (for me, at least) to do it all -- be the
super homeschooling mom while running a successful
(and lucrative) business from home; this is a real
challenge with my kids!
As things stand right now: I work *very* part-time --
from home, at night. My husband is responsible for
the boys when he comes home. I am taking steps to
re-build or re-direct my career, since I feel that my
current work (translating) holds little long-term
potential. I am searching for that dream career
wherein I can work part-time now (on my own time!) and
build to full-time work later, when the kids are
older.
As my boys grow and become more independent, I am --
slowly -- finding more time for my work. They also
are pulling me toward unschooling; many days they
would rather follow their own passions without
interference from me. I am hoping that the intense
effort required to feed their hunger for information
now will pay off in the longer term. That is, since
they are moving at such an accelerated pace, I hope
that in two or three years all three of us will be
able to devote ourselves to our own work during the
day.
That's the view from here.
SarahG
Leslie wrote:
<<<<I have found that it is very difficult to know what level of material
is appropriate and that sometimes I have had to start low and allow my daughter
to progress rapidly through something in order to find the right level of
material. In addition, even though it seemed very counter-intuitive to a
regular learner like me, I had to become very sensitive to J's ability and
desire to skip over material. It is only after the fact that I am able to
realize that she has already learned what she decided to skip over, even though
it was not learned in a formal way.>>>>>
Leslie's absol.utely right (and you can imagine what a problem this is in
regular schools!!!!!)
sometimes gifted kids use materials for awhile, or delve deeply in an
area of study, then never finish the "products" that were supposed to
"demonstrate" their learning, because they have already learned what
they desired.
I'm reminded of the story of the "omnibus prodigy" in Feldman's book
"Nature's Gambit." He exhausted his mother as a preschoooler, trying
to learn about a dozen different languages. She got tutors and everything. Then
all of a sudden he stopped. She finaly asked him why, and he said he'd learned
what he was trying to learn -- he'd figured out which languages had a common
ancestrall language.
Corin wrote:
> So I guess my question is, as unschoolers, how do I make sure that my
> child actually covers the basics at some point, and how do I walk that
> line between giving them the challenges that they need without causing a
> meltdown because it's "too hard"?>>>>>
Well, you'll know if it's "too hard" or "too-something-else" right away if
you are getting meltdowns, and at that point it may be wise to take a break
and change tactics.
Those who fully buy in to the "unschooling" philosophy would say that when a
child needs to cover the basics, they will learn it themselves, and usually
quickly.
If you haven't already read some of the classic writings on unschooling, I
strongly recommend it.
One of the best -- as a sort of "year in the life" diary of an unschooling
family with extremely gifted kids, who had had bad experiences in school to
start with -- is Nancy Wallace's "Better than School" (1983, Burdett, NY:
Larson Publications). It's out of print but you can probably get it through
interlibrary loan or on used book sites.
Kristine wrote:
<<<<V/S or Associative learners may also find that too much
visual input is distracting . They prefer their own
movies playing in their head created by the words they are reading! This is
especially true when the graphics do not jive with the word "picture"
creating a disconnect. Also for the VS kid it has to be esthetically pleasing
and some of these graphics used in different texts are garish and serve no
purpose but to "spice up" the page.
When
we cover a new unit in history for example. I have found it effective with my
child to show a documentary from a great source such as national Geographic or
the History Channel as a visual anchor. Reading plain text, after that point,
comes alive with the images set in place from the era and geographical
location.>>>>>
Thanks VERY much, Kristine, for that VERY important post!! and I'd encourage
all of you to ask Kristine more questions about this as she has some excellent
information to share.
(This social studies book our district bought was supposed to be the be-all and
end-all. I started reading it during silent reading time in a classroom
yesterday and nearly fell asleep it was so dull!!!!! And probably *would* have
fallen asleep were it not for the annoying politically correct language.
Instead of grasping any of the meaning I found myself counting the politically
correct comments. . .so now I STILL don't know anything more about Northern vs.
Southern life in 1850!)
Stephanie wrote:
<<<<ok,
can you give me a clue? I'm not sure I understand this....."thinking
things together" I would love to do more relaxed homeschooling, but
I don't think my dd is motivated enough to do anything other than watch
videos/play barbies, ( which are all very elaborate, musicals etc.). I
don't really like tradtional stuff, well, for me, I loved it personally, but
she cant stand it....I am just not sure how to teach the foundation things they
need to know.....
Kathi wrote:
But if you are using a "regular" curriculum, no matter what it is --
a textbook series, Calvert, A Beka, etc. -- then it's *very* important to pick
the right instructional level to begin with and not work that's too easy for
the child.
Hahahahahaha....just thought I'd share.....She is just did her language, 3rd
grade Alpha Omega, (she is already a grade ahead and I'm skipping through) she
came laughing to me...they told me to get a dictionary for these words!
Anxious, struggled, sigh. In 3rd grade? Use a
dictionary for these words???
LOL,>>>>>
LOL indeed, Stephanie -- did it every occur to you that a little girl who is a
grade ahead and "skipping through" the next grade level and doesn't
even need to use a dictionary for the section that it was intended, *might*
*already* know more of the "foundation things" than you are giving
her credit for??? :-)
And, she's not using the Barbies in a traditional way, it sounds. She's using
them to put on musicals? Well, how about having the Barbies act out a
particular historical event?
Rosemarie wrote:
<<<<<Thanks for doing this conference and at a very
opportune time may I add? Kathi as you know my dd10 is presently experiencing
some rather dramatic visual changes.funny thing, she is still a reading
machine for books she wants to read.
I would
appreciate suggestions that may help her during this period that her eyes
arenıt exactly cooperating? I can see that she doesnıt tolerate more than 2-3
hours of reading/writing type stuff a day. AS I said before that 2-3 hours is
not including all the reading she regularly does on her own.
She
really gets bored easily and when bored gravitates towards computer games, I
really donıt think they are good for her right now. <<<<<
Rosemarie, could you try some taped books from the library? After all, this is
a short-term thing, not a long-term solution -- and it would be MUCH better
than using her eyes for computer games when they are tired of reading!!!!!
It's a good thing she isn't in a regular school for 8 hours a day right now,
the reading/near vision activities would be WAY too much!
Karl wrote:
> recent discovery in our home was that my son reads DRAMATICALLY faster in
> large print books for baby boomer adults. I requested a copy of the first
> volume of the Lord of the Rings trilogy from the local library for my son a
> couple of months ago, and accidentally ended up with the large print
> edition. My son blazed through that much faster than through the Oxford
> World's Classics paperback edition of The Three Musketeers he had read just
> before. So then I intentionally requested more large print books for him. I
> discovered that there are now many interesting titles available in large
> print editions, doubtless because Baby Boomers like me are getting to be of
> the age that we have presbyopia. I like those large print editions myself!
> This matter of requesting large print books might be something other
> families would like to try, to see if it turns up interesting books with
> better readability of each page.>>>>
Karl, this is an EXCELLENT idea! (and not just for kids who need vision
therapy, but for little kids who are ready to read advanced books but can't
deal with the tiny print very well).
One reason we selected the pre-algebra/algebra I textbooks that we did for
th 6th grade advanced math students in my school is because this particular
set of books was written for middle school kids, not high school kids (even
though it contains all of high school Algebra I and more). The print is
larger, and there is more white space on the page.
Hello, Kathi and everyone else on this list. This conference comes at a very
opportune time for us. We have a clearly gifted 7yo DD, in a public school
reputed to be among the "very best in town" since last year. Even though
last year she was with the best teacher and was getting more advanced
curriculum in a group setting, we still ended the year feeling disillusioned
over both the quality and standards of the schooling( I volunteered A LOT
and was able to get first hand insight into what really goes on) Her needs
for more were clearly not met, nor were her social and emotional needs. I
might mention that at that time we were new to the public schools in the
U.S. and so wanted to see for ourselves before we came to any conclusions.)
The bar seems to be set so low for every child, and those who are wanting to
excel and learn seem to be shutting off after a few years. I have really
tried to understand the issues and work within the constraints, but ... my
child's needs and interests are at stake here, after all.
We've talked about homeschooling for a while. I have done a lot of reading
in the past few months and I am very much convinced that this would be the
way to go. Now DH after a lot of earlier opposition has even turned around
and begun to think of it as a possible option. ( I am very committed to
finding the best possible scenario for my DD- being "gifted" myself and
having dealt with external expectations, and other issues, throughout my
childhood and early adulthood, motherhood was important business for me,
enough to give up a career as an career professional- nothing else
mattered.)
I am not sure about the other aspects of it though- like being in a social
group etc. Our DD is an only child, and we are really not part of any
religious group, so do not have recourse to groups like church,etc. that
other homeschoolers seem to have. I do not mean to imply any offence to
those of other faiths/ of an eclectic or atheist outlook, its just that most
homeschoolers I have met so far seem to rely heavily on their church for
social groups.
We are off to the GDC next week and are hopeful of getting some useful info
from the evaluation.
I guess today's topics are really relevant to us- how do we know that this
is the right decision to make for the long run? I would appreciate any
feedback, comments, suggestions etc. from the group at large, and of course
Kathi! Thank you again, Kathi for your time!
Anjali P.S. Sorry, I tried to keep it brief, but... :-)
Rosemarie,
This may or may not help (and I'm not Kathy!) but within the past year or 2,
I decided to help my very v/s son, 9, develop his auditory skills. My
younger son is totally auditory in learning so it was natural to begin to
get books on tape. We began using tapes on long road trips but his auditory
attention has improved greatly. He's listened to Tom Sawyer (and then read
the book), Treasure Island, Pride and Prejudice, and Great Expectations,
among other things such as audio magazines, Teaching Company great tapes,
music tapes, spanish tapes, history and geography tapes, etc. I've also
done listening skills with him for the past 2 years and I think that's been
helpful.
I also pulled way back on his computer and tv usage in the past 2 years
and it's been a good thing. His optometrist always told us to have him take
breaks every 15 minutes, anyway. Ds is still very spatial but lately, he's
been spending most of his time playing chess and reading chess books so his
v/s needs are being quite met!
Becca O.
Karl wrote:
>>She tells me to feel that my
current occupation is "private school principal," and that makes me feel
better about what I'm doing at the moment. >>
Wow, I love that line! I'll have to remember (and borrow) it. I just
pulled my 11 year old out of public school last week, so this conference is
particularly timely. As for work, I have a uniquely suited job for a
homeschooling parent -- I work from home, strictly from my computer.
Ironically, I'm finding that it's actually beneficial for my work, because I
have to be more focused and structured to get everything done. I have set
clear ground rules with K -- I must bill two hours a day, so part of the
school time must be done without my intervention. It also follows along
with one of our biggest goals, which is to teach independence while
learning -- not all assignments have to start with a detailed handout that
contains the entire roadmap (like the ubiquetous school ditto).
L.A.
>this discussion, about helpful ways for families to balance competing
claims
>on the parents' time while the kids are growing up.
I was actually a bit surprised by this post since it is opposite my
experiences. I know several other families in our homeschooling group with
kids of varying levels of giftedness, all of whom made the same choice I did
somewhere during pregnancy or before - putting the kids first, our own
careers second. I have plenty of time to pursue my own interests, even with
homeschooling and I've never once felt like homeschooling was competing or
preventing me from doing anything /I/ wanted to do.
I view life as being like a lengthy novel. In this chapter, I am a
homeschooling mom. I don't know what is in the next chapter, but I can relax
and enjoy the one I'm in knowing there are many more to come.
Annette
Kathi
asked:
>>First of
all, has he had a vision evaluation by a developmental optometrist? This sounds
like a vision problem! (and one that a regular optometrist or ophthalmologist
may not catch).
He's
had glasses prescribed by an ophthalmologist, but has not seen a developmental
optometrist. I will have to check on this.
>>Secondly, what do you mean by "learning differences"? A
diagnosed learning disability? If so, he may qualify for talking books for the
blind or dyslexic -- and accommodations such as oral tests in college. But you
need the full documentation from testing to get this.<<
Yes,
he has been diagnosed LD in math and written language with a 20 point
spread between VIQ and PIQ. He excels in verbal skills but has
weaker visual spatial skills and slower processing speed. Homeschooling has
been great - I just wish I had more strategies for helping his gifts flourish
while trying to work around the deficits. Any book recommendations?
Lucy
I'm turning that into our buzz word for the week, I loved it so much :) I
can define it real easy too -
K-2 grades in 12 months
3-4 grades in 7 months
5th grade took us 4.5 months
6th grade took us 2 months
I've asked him to take longer from now on, just so /I/ can keep up with
him - the curriculum is getting tough!
I don't have a question per sey, but rather wanted to share a bit of our
story since I know from the posts already that some are still considering
homeschooling and some are in the early years of figuring out what works
while gaining confidence in the decision to educate their child/ren at home.
We've homeschooled him almost exclusively, though he did spend a year in a
progressive preschool until they advised us to go back to homeschooling. I
knew no packaged curriculum would work, so I did research on my own and used
the following methods thus far -
Unschooling, keeping track of levels using the "What Your * Grader Should
Know" series of books for K-2.
Well Trained Mind for 3-5th grades, since it allowed him to start high
school in some subjects, college in others without detracting from the core
of the curriculum.
>From 5th grade on, we've moved to a more traditional classical education,
which does differ from WTM (which also is a form of classical).
When I saw how fast he was getting through 6th grade, I added in almost all
of another curriculum to our schedule so we are now doing both classical
learning and living books/Charlotte Mason, resulting in 26 subjects per week
being covered.
Here's a summary of where/how/what we're doing, which may be helpful to
others :)
Math - Pre Algebra from a textbook, though we may just move up to Algebra 1
soon as he's passing the end of chapter tests before doing the work. He's
also studying economics at a high school level.
Logic - He's about to start a college introductory logic class.
Grammar/Composition - A traditional 10th grade textbook, along with a
classical writing program, so he does twice as much in this subject.
Science - Again a double subject. He's doing a jr. high level physics course
offered for homeschoolers in our area and is doing a college level astronomy
course at home.
Literature - He's been reading from a college book list for a year now - one
of those "what colleges wish all incoming students had read first" kinds of
lists. We try to tie in about half the reading to history studies, the rest
are just really great books. He goes through about 1 novel (500+ pages) per
week, so it is a large part of his studies.
History - We are enjoying going through history chronologically and using
living books to supplement. He uses Asimov's Chronology of the World as his
main text, which isn't a textbook and I'd rate it to be for college level
students.
Foreign Languages - We do Spanish/French/Latin together, learning vocabulary
for all three simultaneously. This is the one subject he works at age level
for, mainly so I can keep up as languages were my weak subject in school.
Add in fine arts (art history, drawing, music history, instrumental music,
Shakespeare), physical education, current events, nature study, community
service, and a few others, and that's close to all we cover.
He spends less than 3 hours a day, 4 days a week, on school work. I, in
turn, spend an additional 2 or so hours a week doing his daily lesson sheet,
finding resources, et cetera. It leaves us more than enough time to pursue
our many hobbies, to volunteer for a couple of local groups, and to be
incredibly active in 4-H (he's doing 13 projects this year, plus is the club
president.)
He turned 8 on Tuesday and, at this rate, he'll be done with high school by
the age of 12, most likely with a year or more of college-level study
already completed. I wonder what we'll find to do when he's done at 12, but
the local colleges won't admit him for another two years, though it doesn't
stop our forward progress. My son is passionate about learning, knows full
well what level he is at in various subjects and expects continual forward
progress (I sometimes try to sneak in a "fun" book from a lower grade, but
he sees right through it each time and demands the difficult texts).
The one thing I don't have time for in all this is to push him - I'm too
busy hanging on for dear life and trying to enjoy the ride :)
Annette
--- Corin wrote:
> So I guess my question is, as unschoolers, how do I make sure that my
>
> child actually covers the basics at some point, and how do I walk
> that
> line between giving them the challenges that they need without
> causing a
> meltdown because it's "too hard"?
I can ditto Corin's post and add my own question...My pglet is a bit AS
and melts down whenever she makes mistakes. What she is capable of is
immense, what she melts down over is ridiculous. Some days are horrid.
She can't focus enough to read without meds - and the right level of
meds, so we lose time during the day and at night because she can't
settle down. I can see her needing early college, but I'm so
frustrated because she has to exhibit some consistent maturity. How do
you get them comfortable making mistakes when they melt down at the
least frustration, yet have the pg IQ? We are on meds and at the psych
constantly including a therapist, and OT. Yes, when and how do you fit
it all in? I am so tired! I have twin pglets who consume my very
being.